It’s not you, it’s me. This relationship has had its share of ups and downs. Yes, we’ve become known as a Magento shop. Yes, change is scary. But we want to date other business models and platforms. I hope that we can still be friends.
A Brief History
Elias started as a couple of guys doing after-hours freelance web work. One customer wanted an ecommerce site and liked the features in Magento’s beta version. It took forever to code because of limited documentation, but we felt that the market was ripe for a new open-source ecommerce system. Our total bill to the client: $5k. And to say the least, our data management team was surpassing itself; so much that it was advertised as the 9 best data entry jobs from home in the papers. And when you factor in time we probably definitely lost money; but we gained new skills in something poised for growth.
Over the next two years we took on about 30 Magento projects and fostered relationships with stellar developers. But it wasn’t smooth. The first quarter of 2010 ended $10k in the hole because of two projects that went well over their deadlines. Tensions were high. Clients became increasingly frustrated and we lost money each day the projects dragged on. Plus we couldn’t accept new clients without more bandwidth.
Q2 made up the deficit. I attribute this to three things. First, we hustled. Long hours were spent churning out work for several new customers. Second, our business transitioned from a fixed-estimate pricing schema to a more agile hourly rate. This hedged us against a recurrence of those Q1 project misquotes. And third, we added products. We had amassed 16 Magento extensions at this point and put 8 of them on a basic Magento store install to see what would happen. By June the store was generating almost $2k/month – 90% of that tied to one module. The store had potential, but it needed a lot of work to improve on the alpha-esque quality.
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Tipping Point
Magento-based work took its toll on our team. We might have pulled through Q2 in the black, but our personal income was laughably poor for the software world. Compounded on top of this was growing dissatisfaction from our Magento guru, Lee. He was a capable developer but didn’t like being an isolated coder on a virtual team.
Lee and I grew up together in the same small town. He was a friend long before either one of us knew what PHP is. So it was important to our ownership team to help him figure out where he fit without forcing him to continue doing something he disliked. Lee ultimately felt that stepping away from coding and the startup environment was the right call for his family. Eric, Luke and I committed to support and cheer him on even though losing him meant shaking up our business strategy.
Where do we go from here?
Over the past 60 days I’ve looked at several ecommerce and CMS communities, talked to development leaders in the Magento community about forking, documented the elias 10 step website process, and littered my office floor with papers covered in research notes. I’m always open to listening to new opportunities (unless you’re an offshore company spamming me with grammatically incorrect offers for cheap labor). Drop me a note if you have suggestions for a new product or approach: josh {at} eliasinteractive.com
Practically, the module menu redirects to a store that Lee is managing until arrangements are finalized with a buyer. Magento-related leads are being diverted to trusted colleagues for now while our team is working hard to finish new projects in design/development. A refreshed elias site layout is in the works for this month and I’ll discuss strategy in an upcoming post.
Somehow I feel connected to all of the above. As much as I like Magento, in situations like these, hearing stories like this, makes me sad.
On one side you have this feature rich platform but on the other side of mirror you have a developer non friendly platform that requires above average time and energy to master. Beyond that, the biggest issue is the cost of development and explaining to your client how simplest things require mass amount of time to develop/deliver.
Don’t know what else to say. No point in much trashing a product that puts food on my table.
I guess whats really important is to keep your sanity and health.
Wish you guys all the best.
Bold move guys, I like it – keep up the awesome work 🙂
I’m really not sure who you guys are, or why I’m following you on Twitter, but at some point I guess I decided to, and here we are.
Your tweet/post caught my eye, because I know exactly what you are talking about. I LOVE the idea of Magento. I work as an in-house designer for a company, and I actually redesigned our entire b2b e-commerce site in Magneto, but abandoned the project when I realized how tricky it would be to actually maintain/scale the site. Magento has some great features, but it is just not easy to work with. I, like you, have also set out on a quest to find the perfect, usable, scalable platform. I have had no luck. If you find a platform you are happy with, let me know. I am starting to think it does not exist.
Josh,
Echoing Branko’s comments, it’s always sad to hear yet another Magento fall victim to the struggles you’ve pointed out. We ourselves face the same battles, and have overcome significant challenges of running the development side of our business based largely on Magento. The biggest challenge remains, as Branko has pointed out, that seemingly “simple” changes require 3x the time as some other platforms, and in most cases, clients just don’t understand that. Someone has to account for that time, and nobody wants to.
Compounding the problem is the influx of “magento developers” that really have no clue what they’re doing or getting into and underbid the project and screwing themselves, and their clients in the process.
Enough ranting about Magento though – we feel your pain – and appreciate the openness of your post. Best in your future endeavors – we’ll be here plugging away at Magento =)
Josh,
Thanks for your transparency and honesty. Your journey sounds very familiar as others have said. Magento seems to evoke a love/hate relationship from its developers. I still feel it’s a viable platform, but it’s been a long road getting here.
I’m interested in seeing where you guys go from here. Best of luck and blessings in re-aligning your business to your next focus.
We agree with you, Branko. Magento is open source and so we don’t have a right to be mad at it because it owes us nothing. I’m shooting for an amicable break-up:)
We agree with you, Branko. Magento is open source and so we don’t have a right to be mad at it because it owes us nothing. I’m shooting for an amicable break-up:)
We agree with you, Branko. Magento is open source and so we don’t have a right to be mad at it because it owes us nothing. I’m shooting for an amicable break-up:)
We agree with you, Branko. Magento is open source and so we don’t have a right to be mad at it because it owes us nothing. I’m shooting for an amicable break-up:)
Thanks John!
Thanks John!
Thanks John!
Thanks John!
We’ve been researching several options, Craig. I’m drafting another post right now to try to expose some of my thinking behind strategy. IMHO no software system is perfect. They all have tradeoffs. But some are better than others in how they balance those tradeoffs.
We’ve been researching several options, Craig. I’m drafting another post right now to try to expose some of my thinking behind strategy. IMHO no software system is perfect. They all have tradeoffs. But some are better than others in how they balance those tradeoffs.
We’ve been researching several options, Craig. I’m drafting another post right now to try to expose some of my thinking behind strategy. IMHO no software system is perfect. They all have tradeoffs. But some are better than others in how they balance those tradeoffs.
We’ve been researching several options, Craig. I’m drafting another post right now to try to expose some of my thinking behind strategy. IMHO no software system is perfect. They all have tradeoffs. But some are better than others in how they balance those tradeoffs.
Well articulated as usual, Kevin. Do you feel like positioning Blue Acorn around ecommerce strategy rather than a particular platform has helped or hurt you guys?
Well articulated as usual, Kevin. Do you feel like positioning Blue Acorn around ecommerce strategy rather than a particular platform has helped or hurt you guys?
Well articulated as usual, Kevin. Do you feel like positioning Blue Acorn around ecommerce strategy rather than a particular platform has helped or hurt you guys?
Well articulated as usual, Kevin. Do you feel like positioning Blue Acorn around ecommerce strategy rather than a particular platform has helped or hurt you guys?
Well, positioning around strategy isn’t really something you can just make the decision to “do” – you either have the expertise to be strategy focused or you don’t – most “development” companies don’t, can’t, and shouldn’t. I’m not pointing this response to Elias specifically, but being strategy focused first, development second, is a strategy that started when Blue Acorn was started based on already established expertise – ie. we’ve RUN ecommerce businesses before.
It hurts not being singularly focused on one product, one market (like Magento), but it ultimately allows to play a role with different clients and different solutions. If we were a “development shop”, I would find it better to position within one platform however.
Thanks for the kind wishes, Daniel. I completely agree that Magento is a viable platform. In fact, I would still assert that it’s the best option to date for open source ecommerce. There are just some huge cracks in the community’s foundation.
Thanks for the kind wishes, Daniel. I completely agree that Magento is a viable platform. In fact, I would still assert that it’s the best option to date for open source ecommerce. There are just some huge cracks in the community’s foundation.
Thanks for the kind wishes, Daniel. I completely agree that Magento is a viable platform. In fact, I would still assert that it’s the best option to date for open source ecommerce. There are just some huge cracks in the community’s foundation.
Thanks for the kind wishes, Daniel. I completely agree that Magento is a viable platform. In fact, I would still assert that it’s the best option to date for open source ecommerce. There are just some huge cracks in the community’s foundation.
Please send this post to the magento management.
Please send this post to the magento management.
Please send this post to the magento management.
Please send this post to the magento management.
Well, positioning around strategy isn’t really something you can just make the decision to “do” – you either have the expertise to be strategy focused or you don’t – most “development” companies don’t, can’t, and shouldn’t. I’m not pointing this response to Elias specifically, but being strategy focused first, development second, is a strategy that started when Blue Acorn was started based on already established expertise – ie. we’ve RUN ecommerce businesses before.
It hurts not being singularly focused on one product, one market (like Magento), but it ultimately allows to play a role with different clients and different solutions. If we were a “development shop”, I would find it better to position within one platform however.
Well, positioning around strategy isn’t really something you can just make the decision to “do” – you either have the expertise to be strategy focused or you don’t – most “development” companies don’t, can’t, and shouldn’t. I’m not pointing this response to Elias specifically, but being strategy focused first, development second, is a strategy that started when Blue Acorn was started based on already established expertise – ie. we’ve RUN ecommerce businesses before.
It hurts not being singularly focused on one product, one market (like Magento), but it ultimately allows to play a role with different clients and different solutions. If we were a “development shop”, I would find it better to position within one platform however.
I’ve always admired you guys, and I’m bummed to hear the news. Send me an email so we can touch base?
I’ve always admired you guys, and I’m bummed to hear the news. Send me an email so we can touch base?
I’ve always admired you guys, and I’m bummed to hear the news. Send me an email so we can touch base?
Seems to follow the bell curve I’m noticing in Magento configuration information available on other websites. It peaks somewhere between later versions of 1.2 and earlier versions of 1.3 with growing annoyance around 1.4.0.x
We’ve had a good amount of people switch over to LemonStand after jumping ship from Magento. I believe it would make your development process a lot easier and efficient: http://lemonstandapp.com
full disclosure: I’m a Co-Founder of LemonStand.
Hi Danny. Just tested Lemon Stand and it falls short from my expectations/needs. I agree Magento is buggy and the learning curve is huge, but still has a ton of features that I haven’t found anywhere else. I’m currently working on an e-commerce project for a personalized stationary company and products have a ton of options that cannot be configured in Lemonstand. Sorry to hear, since I wished there were a simpler product that Magento to move away from it.
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I’m really interested to know how it falls short? Have you actually installed LemonStand and evaluated it first hand?
LemonStand offers a ton of ways a product can be customized. Customers can personalize products, orders, and a product can have any number of options, extras or grouped products within. There are of course things we’re working on, but we’re pushing improvements every week. We’re very open to working with our community to make a great product.
The guys from Elias are actually using LemonStand now. We have many happy customers who have come from the Magento camp. LemonStand has a lot of terrific features, many of which magento doesn’t. So there of course pros and cons.
LemonStand is also very extensible, and very flexible for developers to work with. That allows it to be moulded to almost any project requirement. And with the launch of the Marketplace today, you’re going to see a lot of modules and themes start coming out, adding even more value to the platform.
Quite an old thread but ended up here from Google – I would give Lemonstand a second look now as after being in a similar situation and doing a lot of research, we found it to be ideal. It’s probably come of age a lot since 2 years ago and so probably has a lot of what you’re after.
I can vouch for the improvements with LemonStand over the last year… several key improvements that make it a pretty attractive alternative to Magento.
Great post I am feeling the lack of community love from Varien. Seems they are loving the Enterprise guys but forgetting that us 4 year beta testers still exist. Worst part is that they don’t seem to care…..maybe it’s now all about the money.
I actually just came back to your site to ask for some help in upgrading the Magento site you built for us. We love it and want to take it to the next level.
I liked working with you on a distributed team – even though it sounds like the distributed team had a part in the changes happening today at Elias. I actually refer back to working with you guys when working with other people far away now.
Completely switching strategy is a bold move and I wish you guys all the best.
you are the best in magento development i am using your created magento extension and all are running fine, you done great job in magento.
Great Job keep it up
Mconnect Solutions
http://www.magentoconnect.us
Are you guys still going to support your modules?
We sold the module store to the good folks over at Classy Llama. http://classyllama.com/
I had only heard of you guys through Magento and the modules you had offered. This is honestly my first time to your site. (great site by the way) Reading all this is very eye opening. I started up my company about a year and a half ago. I have been using Magento since 1.2 And it’s been a frustrating relationship from the get go. That being said it seems it’s like this with any open source software platform. Well except for wordpress perhaps. I too feel the pain when having to tell a client that it’s going to cost x and take x time to achieve an otherwise simple task on most platforms. Although just about every end result has been good with the exception of bidding a job too low, in respects to Magento. I am sad to hear you guys are moving on, but happy in knowing that you’ll post about a new solution. 🙂 It seems in any web based business that deals in web technology, reinventing yourself or changing strategy is pretty common, most may disagree, but I would put my money on the fact that it happens more often than not. It’s only because most wouldn’t have the confidence to openly talk about it. Cheers to you guys and good luck.
Magento is still un-predictive. The latest releases have modified structure and lack of documentation is the reason we still think twice to try a custom development beyond the box. Making a deals portal is a headache in Magento. We saw an extension but our customization isn’t possible in this cookie cutter architecture.
hi there, the point of studying and using magento, is for my store.. it’s never my primary goal, as magento is someone else’s platform…
if you can build and leave and have it continuously making money for you, it’s fine.
But if you have to keep on top of it all the time, and not getting much return from it… it’s not worth your lifetime. NOT AT ALL
So if you are only coding and doing developmental work, step away is a good choice.
its nice blog with unique content and thanks for sharing.
– Magento Design
what about drupal 7 and drupal commerce? (they are aiming high with d-comm) i haven’t tried it though. i am still stuck developing my own mage shop bcuz I am on the other side of the same equation here!!